Ep #4 | WTF is ChatGPT: Heaven or Hell? | w/ Nikhil, Varun Mayya, Tanmay, Umang & Aprameya

get 50 friends to agree on one date to have dinner if everyone has an AI assistant you can reach out to they can coordinate pretty well talk to us like you're talking to stupid people there's this thing called risk GPT put on glasses you're on a date it just hits GPT and it's like okay say these things and you see it on your glasses like ah so I have done me for that I ask him like a robot is okay you're like tearing off his leg and hitting you with it I have the chip in my brain I'll figure out something else yeah

okay hi everyone welcome back so what has who been doing in the last one month well you've been starring in the second half of Aashiqui 2 yeah I love the new look well I was traveling and it was sunny and I thought half my face is covered I might not need sunscreen as much nice kind of smart so if you're in a really sunny place I was in Phuket so if you have a big beard you can kind of like avoid the sun to a large extent if you wear sunglasses it's a great hack it's a great hack yeah yeah but I had a good time I went to Phuket I spent a little bit of time uh going to the beach

eating a lot of Street Food all kinds of Thai junk food yeah what have you guys been up to well just being here for a while traveling I went to South Africa that was fascinating um beautiful country and he told me earlier that it's the best place in the world to visit right now it is that one says that after every trip I just want to see one come back once a week guys this country it's garbage we should all welcome Varun thank you for joining us on this podcast uh would you like to like say something about yourself in a minute or something sure so I had on a company called scenes

I also run a YouTube channel called AV um and I do a bunch of stuff I've been writing code for 17 years I've been brought here uh I assume to uh to to talk about AI but I just want to warn everyone including the people watching that I quickly switch on Doomer mode so I'm I'm really pessimistic about what's going to happen to the world in the next 10 years so yeah like if it contradicts with your opinions feel free to like you know just be like huh yeah what works for this group is we all believe in totally different things right yeah so you can come with that opinion and I'm sure some of us will share it as well by the way I second it yeah no I'll display

the strength because the audience gets scared and they'll be like dude let's go for it man yes so roller coaster you're on the ex you're on the exponential exponential curve and I think there are enough people who are like this will be an s-cur episode you didn't say what you were doing in the last month um doing a bunch of IPL stuff I met I met Ravi shastri and we shots shot with him and it was like being at a like listening to ravishasri in person is like being at a music concert of your favorite musician because you've heard the voice so it really felt like that he's uh have you have you guys met the

vision no you ever met now what I've heard that I was asking you earlier he's a baller yeah don't ask that again but if he hasn't changed and he retains that powerfulness we sign up the we sign up the episode saying Mr shastri never change he was awesome I think this is my first year seeing the IPL up close um I've seen seen the odd match here or there but I didn't realize uh when you're this up close how much of an insane following yeah it is crazy it's pretty nuts do you think Cricket is dying as a sport no no way where not at

all not at all I think amongst the affluent youth maybe maybe yeah because people I talk to like your kids or your daughter in a in a few years I think people are switching to football in other sports especially in that category nobody it's it's still it's still an event to go to like those kids would still show up at an IPL game so I got out of one game and while going on you got to punch your ticket in you exit once you exit you can't you can't come back there are like hundreds of people outside China Swami Stadium waiting just anyone who exits asking them saying can you give me ticket

so me and my friends we walked out and this this guy he just he just cornered me and he said please give me ticket I said you can't go he said no I still want to try how expensive are IPL tickets now uh I was in the hospitality section I was 25 000 bucks a ticket wow yeah and how many people in that section A couple thousand it's fairly big stand a few hundred at least maybe a thousand two hundred yeah um Australian section is like it's pretty good yeah it's like you're in a you're in a banquet holiday fight Sir with Cricket just happening to be there it's an open

bar and you have a good time uh it's it's fun like and I always used to think that oh if you watch cricket in a stadium like it's your sour waves then which is like okay but they're right there bro like it's it's you can hear a bat hit a ball and you have those TV screens there anyways but you know the experience of watching a game in both China Swami and one kitty which is my favorite stadium in India is because they're tiny they're small stadiums and wonkady is kind of built vertically around it right there's not too much space to sit so you feel like you're a part of the game uh when same with China Swami right it's I took both

my dad and my father-in-law thanks to you um and it was fabulous like 275 Bangalore fans they were CSK fans actually but they just had a great time because you know it's a party it's a party the atmosphere was great they were Spangler always losing my Cricket analysis one thing that is going wrong you can you can even pinpoint at someone's marriage and stuff like that you're not getting me canceled see as far as I'm concerned the only matches that most people care about is Mumbai Indians CSK RCB so I think RCB is

winning uh so in case anyone from RCB is watching you know and if the state is busy it's also correlated right because they're not winning that's the line there every time usually you'll get a chip I would assume because they're not winning the number of fans will reduce it's a star-studded team all the time and there's Virat Kohli so they expect them to win it is a matter of time ayega is is the thing that was so different um you know 17th four days ago when I was at the game 70 or 65 of the stadium

was CSK fans in yellow it was like that's the wrong City that's the dhoni it was dhoni yeah it was dhoni I mean it was just out amazing yeah it was outside but the stadium experience is insane because in case the four didn't get you enough dopamine right oh three letters I'll go for it I'll see me it's pretty insane it's your earlier question of will Cricket die it won't because there are very few moments of Celebration and Indians love celebrating so we're talking about chat GPD today um to pre-face our conversation like I'm no expert I'm here to learn from what each one of us thinks about it and I think

most or many people are like me we're sitting on the outside like I've watched so many podcasts about chat GPT all the all-in-ones Lex Friedman ones uh even the ones from Elon Musk and the Microsoft CEO and the Google guys have come back and they're trying to compete there are so many different versions of what is happening right now so maybe we start with understanding what is chart GPT as a technology how did we get here what happened before what failed uh was there like Eureka movement Eureka moment where everything changed if so what was that so maybe start with defining what is chart GPT

yeah would each one of you like to take a shot at it well I think the you know the buildup of data on the internet that's available uh from all of humanity and what we think has never been as humongous as in if there's a Tipping Point Beyond which you can actually start building your own human or intelligence or so I think that is what was happening throughout 90s 2000s to 2010s and that Tipping Point has been reached now where you know we as in Google results for results but you still had to add one more level of intelligence to know which

link you had to click on and learn from and you know all of those things so I think we were all waiting for more intelligent interactions uh and I think that's the moment do you find the interactions more intelligent now which are GPT are you using it yeah so we've integrated charge GPT into help creators so creators can actually like you like there's a button on the Creator API which connects the chat yeah it's an API so Microsoft we're working with Microsoft very deeply so we're making sure that creators get lazier that's what they want to do so if I'm creating content on Google do I have a chat box where I can ask for suggestions correct

so on the create screen itself we've got a idea like a bulb you click on that you can ask for any kind of assistance so write a poem to you know get me a picture of Virat Kohli or Rohit basically charge GPS sits there and we'll keep building these tools for creators as we go forward uh for audio for video for pictures you know you can keep getting deeper with it and so if you have to summarize what is chat GPT in one sentence I think it's an assistant to every human to be a superhuman right as in how do we access it is going to keep getting better right now it's still an outside interface it

will become a part of us at some point in time and we will choose to do it or not to but I think it's a tool to become super superhuman the way I look at it I mean correct me wherever I'm wrong and I will be in many places but it feels to me like we've been using computers for a long time right uh what we spoke a computer could not understand and we had middlemen or translation which we call coders and programmers and stuff like that the Eureka moment for me in some ways seems to be that the need for the translation seems to have gone away very quickly is that somewhat accurate

I'll tell you the best I mean I'll tell you the way programmers think about charge GPS and this is probably not how the Layman think about it but charge gbt is a completion agent right it's a next word predictor so we give it three words it'll pick up the most likely next word and the best way to prove this to you is and that's not a bad thing is I'm not realizing charging PD's skill set but I'm just telling you what it is like for example I'm going to tell you a statement fill in the last blank nikhil kamath is a dash entrepreneur you got a word right oh there's also something else thank you

there is a cluster of words that you would have said or that you were thought of but there are there are words which you wouldn't have thought of for example nickel is a shampoo that doesn't make sense the word shampoo doesn't doesn't fit so essentially what's happening is it's got a probability cluster of what's the most likely word to come out next uh after you give it three or four or five words and that's essentially how charging works but that's how GPT Works chat GPT and if you've gone to the actual API what's the difference between GPT and chat GPT so GPT is the Transformer itself right it's the pre-train transfer what is a Transformer

so a Transformer so there's a paper many many years ago called attention is all you need so before that we used to train something called rnns okay which are like very slow so rnns are a type of neural network where essentially they did things in a very different way they weren't making so when you look at a sentence okay let's say the sentence is I am a dog or I have a dog right what is the most important word in that sentence it's dog right dog is probably the most important but and that's how rnn's worked right there's one word that's very important so when you did things like translation you want to

translate that sentence from English to Spanish you replace each word one by one but you know that's not how language works like if you translate let's say a statement like uh to English not every word will be replaced like some words like you know like transfer over and stuff so we realize the paper called attention is all you need attention is all you need by the way this is a good exercise if folks watching your own sorry to cut you off you should go on chat GPT I did this two days ago right attention is all you need paper can you explain this to me like a five-year-old and actually does that does that really well good please

so so they figured out new technique called attention where they said that instead of looking at a word one at a time let's look at these as clusters of words let's create this think of it like a heat map right of all the words that are that have a high probability of appearing together and all the words that have a low probability of appearing together so you basically have this uh this space of all the words you know like yeah like a word cloud but some are together some are away so are you in a way saying that the main point of chat GPT is to be able to predict using probability how to complete something which is GPT not chargeability now if

you go to the open AI playground and this is where GPT stand for generative pre-trained Transformer so it's a Transformer but it's a trained somebody's trained it for a dummy like me what is a Transformer so a Transformer is a type of let's just so the best way to think about GPT in general is it's a new type of computer right with a new programming language and that programming language is English now if you go to the open AI playground if you look at the first line for charging or if you want to create a let's talk about how you go from GPT to chat GPT okay if you want to create a GPD from GPT you literally have to your

first three lines of your prompt are going to be hey you are an AI assistant okay you are talking to a human being here's an example AI colon blah blah blah welcome my name is open AI chat GPT whatever how can I help you today human and then human says something then ai ai says something then human Dash right and what you're filling in is that first Dash before that there's like three four lines of prompts which say hey this is an AI talking to a human so what's actually happening with rgbt is it's completing a statement that is simulating a conversation between you

and an AI assistant right in Bing's case the AI assistant has a name it's called Sydney right so what's happening is this completion can be applied anywhere so sorry coming back to what nikhil said what is a Transformer again yeah what is a Transformer so a Transformer is a type of computer think of it as a type of computer and you can use Transformer in many ways but main way to use Transformer is translation now we use it for next word prediction got it right and chat jpt was uh GPT was the Transformer yeah it's a train transformation so once you have the Transformer you need to put data into it right think of it like a machine and you

need to shove as much data into it can predict what would come next based on the data based on the data right so someone went and trained this Transformer to be a chat assistant yes and that is chat gbd yes that is chat GPT right and you can use this completion in any way and what is the data that has been dumped into this Transformer GPT it's all on the web but but it's mostly Reddit right and the best way to understand mostly Reddit yeah it's Reddit anywhere like the internet was mostly forums if you look at it from ugc the better Yeah the more ugc yeah and I want to mention this right because

people get this wrong it's not really like whatever question is uh your asking has been asked before it's more like with any AI it's learning the underlying pattern of how this conversation happens the best example of this is when you fine-tune chat GPD you can use chat GPT as a base and then say I'm going to give you some pairs of uh prompt and response prompt and response I'm going to give you many many pairs of it maybe 10 000 20 000 whatever and I can modify charge GPD now if you do it with your let's say I take your WhatsApp and I just rip through all the messages you've replied to so the message has been sent messages that you are that you've replied to and

I just dump it into chat GPD eventually you'll also pick up things like your spelling mistakes it'll pick up things like your style of speech right so it's somehow started learning the underlying patterns of what of of the the text body I'm still a little confused so GPT is a Transformer yeah you it's a train transform you dump data it makes predictions Transformer Plus data equal to GPT think of it like that and that's I'm obviously simplifying it but that's how it works and when you say training what does that mean so training means you dump all of this data into the Transformer and you say well I I'm gonna let's say if I have

100 pieces of data I'm going to keep 20 pieces of data aside I'm going to be like these are the prompts these are the response I'm not going to feed this into the Transformer itself all this other content I'm going to feed in the Transformer now it's going to learn the underlying patterns it uses a neural network give me a give me an example so let's say I have a statement called I'm a dog right or let's say let's take a better example um hi my name is Varun uh what should I eat for breakfast and maybe somewhere on the internet there's a ton there's some data where somebody has responded to that statement saying something right

over time if we did enough examples it starts understanding that Varun is the least important keyword here right and it will start understanding that well this person just wants a diet plan right or this person just wants to know what to eat so here is the statement so it's generalizing in a way right so once it's learned the underlying patterns we take the other 20 pieces that we had kept aside and we tested on this another digestion how is it learning so that's that's complicated it's a neural network that's behind the scenes even experts in the world don't know exactly how it's coming out with you know enough response uh I know a little

bit about neural networks because we use it in trading right like we dump in volume price time data and we wait for the network to throw out patterns that it could recognize in the past but when you say learning yeah that part I'm a little conflicted about yeah so the best way to think about it is every piece of data or every piece of content has features right the best example of like how I can explain to you outside of Texas maybe let's say faces let's say I want to train your face right and so so one of the important training my face so maybe I want to copy your face maybe I want to put your face on tanma's face Okay Okay now what's important in a face

you by training do you mean learning my face yes learning the features of your face so we're going to Features right now how do you define what features are like you might say you have a nose nose is important you have eyes that are important but then there are also other things that humans don't understand right we don't understand these patterns for example the distance between the corner of one eye and the nose may be important we don't know if it's important or not and the reason we deploy these ml models is because we don't know the pattern well enough we don't know like the underlying uh reason why Consciousness comes out or why

somebody says something or or how people form sentences we still don't know all of this so we say screw it we don't get it let the computer figure it out okay so let's let's summarize Let's Go part by part so we remember what you've said so far you're saying so much so GPT Transformer data is dumped into the Transformer it learns from the data which has been dumped to be able to predict the next word based on probability yes based on probability so these guys took GPT added the chat box function to it yeah created chat GPA yes there's a Transformer GPT is a trained Transformer then they trained it to be an AI assistant when

someone chats to it yeah basically what it's doing is it's in completion mode and it has many other modes which are not as good for example it has an insert mode it has a edit mode but we don't use all of that because it turns out completion is great but till now we've been trivializing it we're gonna be very stupid people okay let me please talk to us like you're talking to stupid people got it right don't use any fancy words I'm gonna like I'm gonna you know illustrate myself so so let's say this okay the best way to think about it is trans like GPT or chat GPT is a new type of computer

with a new programming language and the programming language is English plain English right and you're right fundamentally we were talking to computers with code with code you are very verbose you need to be very specific about what you want right and if you miss a word or if you miss like even the syntax nothing the computer's not going to understand you right now we have a way to express in English or any other language because it turns out the underlying patterns of all languages are similar and there are many papers about this where once you train can I ask a question again why was it so hard up until now many reasons right a we didn't

have I'm talking about why was it so hard to make a computer understand instructions in spoken language because everyone has a different like if if you tell me something right I might take something else away from it he might take something else away from it so it's open to interpretation and with a computer the reason you're so specific code if it was a computer is stupid like it's smart but still stupid in some ways so it can and even now with tools like Auto GPT it can go on a tangent right it can go wherever it wants so as specific as you can is good until now the only way we could be specific was through code right and you have plenty of coding

languages that we've created that and many are abstractions on top of each other at the bottom you have things like Assembly Language on top of that you have multiple like let's say the the languages we use today especially in web Technologies there's many levels of you know abstraction below it so now we have a way for Layman to talk to a computer and make it do what it what you want because it now understands you but how far does that go like say for example I use a program to conduct a certain function which up until now a programmer who is a colleague of mine would benefit me how far can I take this chart GPT thing

like let me give you an example of a program let's say I run an investment strategy which uh trades based on correlation between Indian markets in Hong Kong because historically they're very correlated when that goes up somebody buys here when this goes down somebody sells there something like that so if I had a programmer build that for me integrate between data vendors in both the markets figure out a way to reduce the latency of the strategy so the orders get executed fast all of that if I need chat GPT to either help me out or replace the programmer in that process which is very specific to me what do you

think are the so mostly in this particular use case your program is counting on apis or scraping right if there are no apis available you're probably going to scrape a page so fundamentally what is the programmer generally every exchange charges you a certain amount of money in return for that they give you data at a certain periodicity the more API endpoint right yeah so you call them different levels of data like level one data we will probably get one take a minute if you're buying level 5 data it'll give you like 10 snapshots in a second so the exchange does it and you speak to The Exchange thrown API got it

so essentially you could say in this particular case your developer is a plumber if you stitching a bunch of apis together is probably stitching a few things inside the pipes which are like you know authentication and things like that there will be a point where you can just take because charge GPD might not have been trained on the data of that exchange okay so there is a way for you to just take the entire documentation of the data and today I mean after this hopefully I'll show you this you can take it you can just dump it and you can be like this is the documentation please write me code

to do whatever you want right but can I tell you I tried this so I went into chart GPT the paid version which I have and I said run a correlation strategy between X and Y and I also asked if it could check what two instruments are more correlated based on past data but the problem with anything finance and economy related the the one big hurdle is it doesn't have data after 2021. so that immediately negates that's a temporary hitch because the fact that you can't put in data it's because chat GPT has a context window right for GPD 3.5 it's like 4096 tokens and then for that now a 32k token window

right you have to explain each of these things how many words can you write right in in the window if you can't just put in a 50 page document it'll cut you off after a certain page and be like it's too long there is a version of gbt4 where now you can dump in up to 32 000 tokens charge everybody thinks in terms of tokens tokens are words they're like yeah it's it's correlated with words so there's a ratio between word to token right it's not exactly one word equal to one token it's it's somewhat different now what ends up happening is if I have this content of this if the API docs of exchange one API docs of exchange two I

need to tell charges or better yet allow charge GPD to Google so that I don't even have to tell it this so there is a new layer on charging gbd plugins which allows it to hit things like search right it will search by itself it will think and then it will be like okay I need to use this endpoint and I need to plumb it in like this right is it okay if I move my chair this way because my neck is paining otherwise you're sure okay fine so essentially what's happening is uh you're right you don't have to cut that part okay you can let it play there's a lack of data in terms of what

specifically you want to do and most things I would say most technology at the edge will require some specific piece of knowledge if somebody can write that piece of knowledge ideally with the API endpoints chat GPD can do the rest not chat debris itself you probably need to use a tool like Auto GPT because you need recursion right you need the ability of for chargeable to say see every decision we make like from the CEO and Below like if you look in awk chart it's there is it's like you make a decision you delegate some of those decisions so let's say somebody working on to you that person delegates four decisions to people under them and all

this happens in parallel and the output of let's say person C who works under person B will probably have to be related to person B and then back to you so Auto GPD tools like Auto GPT allow chat GPT to kind of have memory allow you to to use external documentation allow it to hit tools like Google and allow what do you mean when you say allow them to have memory so right now tragically doesn't have memory once you if you close the page and you come in it's gone no it remembers so if I have spoken to chat GPT about 10 different topics yeah yeah on the left that's that's the history of of that

particular Channel when I go back to that particular chat it's still there and I believe let's say I have a chat about a certain topic correct when I go back there and ask it a question it already has context from my previous conversation with it correct so it has memory but in a short like period of time until you are in in that session or if you go back to that session now imagine even after days it has it no no correct but what I'm saying is imagine you asked you you remember it has like these multiple tabs on the left yeah now imagine you went through one each one is a separate one separate one so what I'm

saying is what if you remembered through all those conversations because you need many parallel instances of charging if it's able to weave in between all those conversations and realize all that you're thinking because we have long-term memory Moto GPT doesn't in a slightly different way it uses something called Vector medics so can you differentiate like can you like again give us two dumb lines on auto GPT so Auto GPT think if you figure out what is chat GP it's got memory okay it's charging Beauty with memory it's charges the ability to delegate to other chat gpts so basically it makes a copy of itself and it says you go do this and

give me the results so there's a master and there's a Slave right and you can have multiple Masters it's like an org chart so Auto GPT is differentiated by having long-term memory long-term membrane and being able to weave through the different topics that somebody might have spoken about absolutely and delegation and also does it work in a manner where it picks off the data from all the chat gpts which are around and functioning absolutely right so if it gives it more intelligence yes that gives it it's not about intelligence per se but it's just about communication but then why do we need a separate Auto GT Auto GPT if we

have chat GPT wouldn't this evolve into that absolutely so Auto GPD is made by some random guy on uh GitHub he doesn't even have a real name it's some gravitas or something right so if chat CPT adds long-term memory and is able to scrape data of other Charities it is auto GPS yes so autog is a proof of concept more than anything right because it still gets a lot of things wrong but the what I find the coolest part about Auto GPD is it can use any python script in existence so and it will find out what scripted needs and download and where does it gets that from GitHub or something yeah so there's a pipe there's a central

python repository and it'll just be like okay I need a tool to clip videos right okay it'll go through the repository and be like find me a repository that sounds like it can clip videos right it can go to it it has a Swiss army knife you can go to all python repositories so I once used autog tell me this whenever I get that chat GPT in itself is an organization right it's not a not-for-profit it's a it's a company it's a corporation yeah all these places that it is going to learn going to pick up data this python repository Twitter Reddit like you mentioned why are people allowing for another

Corporation to benefit from them right now we saw this in art okay there's a website called Art station and art station for the longest time they had all the 3D artists come there they had all the Unreal Engine guys come there put up like really cool like 3D artwork right 3D and 2D artwork and for a long time they laughed today they're like yeah it's never going to be able to do what we do then mid Journey started training on them and many other uh image models image model was something called diffusion and they started training on them okay then what happened is these guys said how can you use our data and they said legally you

know so there's a case launched against mid-journey okay and my Journey's Counterpoint was this we are not copying your data we are learning from it right I'm not taking your data as is transmuting it here and then putting it out I am learning the underlying patterns between you made a face I'm learning the features of this face the distance between the and I'm not hand coding all these features in the AI is learning it by itself just the way our human brain learns it like you could close your eyes and you could figure out you know in your face in your head what somebody's face looks like like can I draw an analogy to something that is

more tangible in my mind say thongs okay you can get inspired by song yeah so see there are songs which are owned by different labels or whatever there is song X are you saying if I were to go pick up the song copy a certain part of it use it in my song no but you're not copying a certain part of it you're learning the underlying pattern of the song If I say it's a country song okay and I have 10 country songs eventually I can come up with something brand new that sounds country but it's not really it's not really any of these songs it's exactly the way the human brain does it well not exactly but in in a similar way

right if I show your face and ask and give you a piece of paper and say draw a completely random face you can actually do it right right you would be able to do it and none of us would be able to recognize what that face is right so that's what charging beauty is doing and and all these other things the problem is legally how do you sue someone when all that's doing is learning from your data they're not reproducing your data in any way they're just learning from it right and the reproduction rate for something like stable diffusion is one percent what does that mean that means that what a chance what is the reproduction rate so the chance of let's

say I've trained on your 10 pictures of your face okay you have learned 10 different pictures of my face 10 different pictures of your face and I say give me your face of nikhil kamath most of the time 99 of the time it'll show me a new picture of nickel that doesn't look like any of the other 10 pictures but has learned the features of distance between nose to eyes and all those things but isn't that at some level learning and copying is the same thing if you do that then you have to sue uh any company that essentially decides to build like an exchange like yours right right you would have to show anyone who takes

inspiration from honey and not that happens all the time like all anime or all manga take inspiration from each other for example right you can't go around suing people and saying you took inspiration like DMX once tried this the the rapper DMX right somebody copied his like he has a Gruff like growl like a rap like a dog sound he keeps making right and some other rapper copied it and he went to code and said That's My Style how can you copy that and got thrown out right so you inspiration fair use like you could take a thumbnail and like you can take somebody else's picture and absolutely modify the hell out of it doesn't look like it at all

and that would like everything is derivative work no all all of life is plagiarized right like everybody is inspired by something there are probably only 10 unique things in the world so you pick any right uh you pick any anything in anything now the 10 unique things I would argue are also not original they are picked up from the environment yeah right you just look at whatever the sky and you like most unique Packaging so I think the question really is that Temperance in a way what level is okay and what level is not okay and I guess that is on society to Define it the problem I have is that

if a human gets inspired by something that's okay because we're rate Limited at a particular speed but an AI can go crawl through the entire internet and be trained on the entire internet and beat everyone so My worry is like you can't can you arbitrarily put a rate limit and say well you can only learn at this rate otherwise you're going to get sued right so you can't do that that legal system is not ready for this and we don't want to launch lawsuits against anyone who got inspired by another person yeah so let's let's summarize what you have said till now so there is

some kind of a flow for like dummies like me or like just generally people right see you said chat GPT GPT is a Transformer it consumes data helps in making predictions using probability yeah you've made it a chat bought in a way called a chart GPT yeah then there is auto GPT which has a hierarchy where it can communicate with different charge gpts yeah and one level higher decision making is that right long-term memory yeah long-term memory accessories Etc it has access to tools what are

these tools anything like it could be even a python script yeah like how do you download a YouTube video why can't I do that in chat GPT you can't like how if you tell charging we download a YouTube video it'll tell you I can't do that pull a python script if I tell it it's been pull a python script but Chad chat GPD can't execute there in fact there's a plugin on charge which is we should probably enable that there's one with code execution but otherwise Auto gbt will go to Google find the best YouTube to MP4 downloader put your link in there download it to your to your local drive and then extract whatever it needs to why can't chat GPT execute say

for example a Google python programs right it throws it out it says do this do this do this yeah uh run this do that do that but it doesn't execute why can't it cute I mean it doesn't have an execution layer it's it's just outputting text right now and it can output markdown as well but has no way to run that auto GPD what is markdown so markdown is like HTML right like HTML is like a think of it like a like a like a templating layer for the web yeah right you want to display something on the web you want to put something inside tag like you have a body you put that inside the body tag right and then you can style it with

another thing called CSS right so what I'm saying is charging but you can output all of it you can give python code as well but it can't run it can't execute python code right think of it right like if you had but what will Auto GTP Auto GPT have the chat doesn't which it has access to a terminal what is the terminal so a terminal is like your command prompt right it has access to your command prompt it will probably have access to python right it can execute and it can execute that code it can find the python package downloaded by itself and then say I'm executing it buy it in chat GPT enable that from day one because it'd be

insane to have I think the reason they haven't released plugins because they have this they have this plugin the code execution is a plug-in the reason they haven't released it is because I think there's a lot of so chargeability I mean open air has a team called the red team okay which is responsible for breaking or you know jailbreaking chat GPT right now if you give charging access to the internet and give it access to all tools all hell could break laws exactly yeah but RGB broke all hell because the because they're using open ai's uh apiq basically put in your own API key so it's using the intelligence from there

and then it's using its own set of tools saying well we'll go to Google find the right tool and then execute it but maybe you can come in here and say what do you think of chat GPT what is it to you so couple of things I think I'll I maybe anyway Define chat GPT like we all did I mean we've started using it within daily hunt to start generating content right around our espresso feed and it's incredibly useful right uh so I think there are utilitarian jobs that are being done very very effective by the product or everything that Varun just said right around its generative it's generative AI it's going to help generate what's relevant uh in terms of

output I think I'm I don't want to go more into the technicality and you talk about you know embeddings and everything varun's the expert but I think if you just abstract it a one level higher uh the the world is full of stupid people right um we just abstracted a little way out right basically AI was to 2012 or 14 it was academic research right suddenly for the first time uh it's come to life right computers have got so much more powerful because of

this new uh let's just call it language technology whatever you want to call it there are no rules of engagement that you were kind of going there right in a way and what it could do to society if kept in the wrong hands or if used for the wrong things can be highly destructive one will start now highly destructive like I can't tell you how crazy it could be you could alter you could alter like I don't I don't know if we want to go that open in this uh in the session uh of course that's the whole point you could start another War

you could how do you presume award can start using chat GPT well it just it was involved in the current Ukraine crisis as well right they made that deep fake off some misinformation misinformation but I think that's the scene directly but don't you think that Beyond a point will organically inculcate some kind of curation where we will only consume information from a trusted Source an anonymity which had GPT will bring when it's trying to create misinformation won't work maybe in social media it will but not from a trusted vehicle where one usually

consumes news so I have a theory on this okay and I do I don't know this is the Right theory or wrong Theory but I'll tell you anyway we have an immune system okay and let's say you are now exposed to covet okay for the first time you're going to have like a violent reaction your body is going to fight it but your immune system is such that you don't have the same reaction to something you eat right you you drink Coke you don't have a reaction to it that's because your body has a sense of what's safe what's not safe and if it finds a signature that's not safe it fights it it creates antibodies against it so that the next

time it comes it like violently destroys it immediately I feel the brain has an immune system that's similar and that's why we do things like we get politically inclined right there are a bunch of ideas we are okay with we accept and then any idea that's completely different that we that's just too alien to us we reject immediately yes right and the next time any idea represents that we just like our brain goes into like whatever we just shut it out I feel like way to tell people a counter argument or show them the light like show them whatever whatever narrative you're trying to spin in the pinhole of their current you know

immune system so I can show you why the right is good even though you might believe in the left right and there's a specific set of words you can you can do that with and I feel like charging Beauty will eventually get good enough and we're still in gpd4 right I'm sure there are many along the way it'll get good enough to to to push through your brain's system right for example your brain when it sees a video the first thing you want to do is believe it's real right today even today even though charity exists because that change because of all this tomorrow if I see a video I will not believe it's real do

you believe that most of the text on Twitter right now is real what do you mean by earlier on your feed let's say that 30 people on your feet and maybe you followed 30 really in interesting people right how do you know that that content is real you're right in the sense that you trust those people and you know that those people are appearing in your feet because you're giving them follow and it comes out now the thing is that is where that's the first party this thing right where I'm putting out my own thoughts but most thoughts are outside of social media are a third party talking about a second party talking about a first party

it's like for example in the news they can tell you something about you that may or may not be real and the audience will believe it I mean this is going to the point that we were having earlier right because fake news is existed for a long time right but people still believe fake news on WhatsApp some people believe fake news on WhatsApp right let's assume some is a bigger number than some and it's like I wouldn't say majority but a reasonable percentage of people yeah but going back to what you were saying about Twitter the reason I follow those 30 people

is because I believe at some level I know them what they're putting out there is authentic because I have some kind of a relationship with them or they are verified accounts of people in a position of you know for some reason they're intelligent or as I appear to think so how will that change see unless you kind of like get them to start putting fake stuff out no that's that's layer one okay if you follow 30 clean people whether it be on Twitter or in real life nothing is going to change but remember they are also vulnerable to watching the news right at the end of the day we reach it

but that's happening already why does chat GPT change that there's fake news in the world already yeah all of us are experiencing it in one world more number like it's this is experiment right you get 10 people in a room and you show them a graph or you show them a number let's say nine and you ask them what number is this and everyone says 10 and you were the last person to be like the social pressure of Conformity like I mean if you show and the actual experiment you showed two lines and you ask them which line is taller and for most uh of the experiment let's say you show them 10 slides nine slides relative thing B is taller and

everyone says BBB and the last one be shorter but everyone else still says b is taller then what do you do right you don't look like an idiot so you're like I'll confirm right what if I take the other opinion where once for the lack of a better way of putting it once the Quantum of fake news and persuasion towards incorrect stuff increases significantly human mind will organically learn to disregard I don't think we'll be able to higher number of it I don't think we'll be able to tell see my view is it has a larger impact right so you start with fake news uh you can manipulate opinion you can manipulate economies uh

you will would you agree you will dispense off tons and tons of jobs if you just look at the Job Hierarchy in the market right like not everyone is at that level of intelligence where they have uh you know jobs of a very thinking nature now you're sure you could argue that mostly inefficient jobs mostly inefficient jobs right so maybe I'm just pained by what I saw in South Africa but when I look at countries which have 33 unemployment rate or 40 unemployment rate um even India has I think seven to ten percent if I'm not mistake it's a very uh it's a country has a different rate but it is the way they calculate it is

different yeah so when they say unemployment they mean above the age of 18 educated able looking for a job yeah under the age of 60 files maybe the world evolves in a way where all predictive models fed similar kind of data will throughout generic outputs not necessarily like if you say movie script and you base it on the data which is freely available online at some level it will learn off the movie scripts out there yeah so at some level they will all be in a certain category so maybe the future is for nuance for people who are coming out with ideas that have never been done before or

never been done before but not those would be cross domain ideas which have not been the norm in recorded history I tend to look at this very differently okay so I was reading this New York Times article uh this came out yesterday uh and the title of the article is uh will this be the Indian Century four key questions okay without getting into the details he ends this article with saying the only certainty about the the biggest country in the world is that it will be unlike anything that anyone any unlike any that came before it anyway so he's basically talking about the century could be India Century he's asking that question right uh and he ends the

article with a line uh he poses four questions right what other questions um the questions are really around we are the largest democracy uh we have the largest population will our demographic dividend actually pay off right um and the point that he tries to make is for this to pay off we've got to be creating 10 million new jobs a year okay um and he ends the article saying the only certainty about the biggest country in the world is that it will be unlike any that came before it it's going to be different we don't have he doesn't have the answer he's asking the questions the thing that worries me is if you look

at today what's the biggest problem in the world I know I'm talking to you being a capitalist probably the wrong thing to say but capitalism is broken would you agree capitalism might be broken it's totally broken but it's better than the Alternatives yeah I agree hold on one of the Alternatives history as thought is right like we've had socialism we've had communism I feel you know many people talk about this I feel forms of governance economic models are so cyclical we have seen this time and time again if you go way back in history after capitalism Plato sees this very well when he describes democracy

but after capitalism there is typically a benevolent dictator followed by some nutcase who is like offspring of his at some point of time who comes out and is batshit crazy followed by Revolution again followed by people wanting power back in their hands again which is again a form of democracy and then that cycle repeats all over again so the cycle is natural like everything in the world this is cyclical as well so if you think about the world that we're living in and why do we have Bad actors in society it's because you know the largest percentage of wealth is concentrated in very very very small Pockets I

arguments so much but I can make so many arguments to portray that the world we live in right now under capitalism is the best version of the world not just for the affluent but for all sections of society like you go back 670 years our our average age used to be like 40 40. yeah I know what you mean we're living in really really good times now we can complain about the issues of capitalism and I think there are many and I also feel capitalism has to evolve in a manner where the anomalies of capitalism like all of us and many others will have to become more benevolent yeah so yeah so let's now superimpose

where we were right and what Warren was talking about uh assume that the power of what this engine has is concentrated in the hands of a few okay and imagine that it is capable of doing what Warren described one is generating tons of content that looks real that it isn't that isn't real uh shaping public opinion yeah that degree of power is insane degree of power is insane and it can actually go out with everything that it's doing wiping out tens and hundreds of millions of jobs I think capitalism itself will break like what do you think is the underlying what do you think is the underlying

asset of capitalism like what do you think runs capitalism it's not money it's information yeah right from a used car salesman where there's asymmetric information between the guys selling it and the guy buying it capital markets is based on a symmetry of information right right I'm saying information itself will break like I'll give you an example okay we had a bank run recently with svb how much research do you think Jason did before tweeting in all caps saying there's going to be a bank run like how much what do you think his level of DD on that would have been three text messages yeah I've just been like here say it's a

lot of hearsay that makes it onto Twitter and I'm saying the hearsay will be the where the fake news is most spread yeah right somebody will see it on news and My worry is if exactly what you said right if you're manipulating information to such a high level and if it's one it's freely available it's going to be a disaster if it's concentrated in the hands of a finite view it could still be that disaster and I think everything that you talked about but tell me this now that chat GPT okay Microsoft owns half of it all of that is happening soon

Google I I heard the founders are back and they're trying to work on their Bard coming up to speed and competing soon there will be another one yeah it'll be an olive yeah then there will be another one then there will be another one we will probably evolve to the point that everybody starts charging for access to their data right like Twitter will charge Reddit will charge uh quora will charge social media will charge in its own way so this again will get divided into many many companies which are trying to have a piece of this pie and then regulation will come about no that's not nobody will charge they can scrape dude you know you can train a

model like for example Facebook released a model called Lama is only for researchers people torrented it okay and now it's in every every person's computer yeah you can and Lama isn't as good as chat GPD but here's what you can do you can train the outputs of share GPT and train another model in fact Bard is trained on the outputs of charge put up a tweet saying bro Google I don't mind you doing it just don't lie about it right so you can it you don't need like there's no more there's no mode like and I'm telling you all these open source models are just there you can go download them and anytime you want so if we take an example so let's say I don't

want I make a very Innovative song or a movie or whatever it is and I don't want it to be a feed into anybody learning it yeah but I still want to give it to my consumers right so I'll I'll just create my own environment right no but your consumers will leak it now consumers if you get big enough like I wrote a book called pajama profit I I just pirate the book whenever I want to it's been a few years but like whenever I need an excerpt for my own book I pirate it because it's just so convenient and it's there on the internet so somebody's gonna leak it is there anybody that we all trust any one person company in the world they can never be they can never

be yeah and here I mean amongst internet companies just because they don't have a consumer facing app I would say Microsoft to some extent because everything else is irrespective more than I trust Facebook and Google they're one of the most predatory people around like if I agree if you have a bunch of computers they come looking like this so if you really think about it uh Apple you would argue is the most trustworthy today them I don't think trust is the word I I think scale I think we're talking about scale by

virtue of scale we tend to believe they will not do anything wrong it's a very psychology kind of a thing breaks when there's competition like Google is now skirting the lines with everything they're not doing they're not doing Safety Research right they're just like we need to beat chat you think Google has a very interesting structure as a company where the founders of the company have disproportionate voting rights to the number of shares they have same with Facebook now that they're back they don't really have to go to shareholders for approval of what they want to do they can kind of like make decisions of their own yeah

because of alphabets differential shares rights what do you think from a stock market sense I'm sorry I bring it back here all the time but if you had to buy Google Equity Microsoft equity all of this is factored in that Nvidia CEO has gone and done so many interviews wearing leather jackets saying we will benefit from chat GPT kind of I think it's already priced it's already priced in definitely Microsoft and Nvidia is priced in they've corrected the lease they're sitting it yeah for the highest evaluations so you'll have to pick the next guy to make money you know or results today

so you'll have to figure out who will be relevant tomorrow and this is the second biggest GPU producer AMD but they're not anyway they're nowhere close it's not even able to own everything that's the only Monopoly in any Market that I've ever seen rebuild this thing which sits in a CPU and makes it faster right yeah mostly gpus they're building now but uh the reason I believe Nvidia can't be competable is because it's just very deep Tech it's like even if you have a chip you can't break it down so easily and AMD is struggling and I mean amd's had like a in no other industry in Mobile phones we have enough large

Players whose Tech won't break in GPU compute we only have one would you consider Google a good bet because they have the data or at least access to it right I think large companies so like we spoke about earlier GPT Transformer whatever one could argue that Google has the most amount of raw data to dump into something like that maybe but I feel like um with Google right when you're a large company and you have things like PR to worry about things like your shareholders to worry about you just move slowly GPT like the entire opening I've heard this argument and I've heard why that has been attributed to Google

not having done too well in the last decade but because of the voting right thing I mentioned and the founders having come back to like but think about I mean it's a human thing right like I don't think Sergey and Larry would have the level of Drive today as what a Sam Altman who's betting his career on this would have why is Sam Oldman spending all this time doing interviews while he's building on technical guy he's just he's like you know he has a new company and we had a proposal coin huh so we had we went through that investment thing while he's doing this

and while we are all worrying about you know this decimating the world as we know it he's spending his time trying to build a Global Currency kind of a thing why I think it's more about identity verification worldcoin is identity verification for the same reason like you want to post a tweet prove that it's you right your cam your computer can you do like a two two minutes they have a knob yeah and I don't know enough about worldcoin but I think it's just you have an identity now that you have somebody's uh whatever eyes and then every time you

post you basically have to log in or authenticate via the I right and that becomes your source of truth but I feel like that can also be faked at some point right uh but Sam's trying I think the goal of the company is identity they're starting with the eyes but I think eventually it'll be like a bunch of biometric stuff and from the Indian context uh what you think will get disrupted first because of all that is changing people are not going to like this but I think software engineers it's them in India it's still a job that makes you good money

and what kind of software engineers every kind except maybe people working at like like a level where you just can't find that on the Internet or you need like to have 10 years of experience AI scientists will remain anything that innovates on top of stuff okay like a generic landing page guys done let's see lowest hanging fruit let's say TCS web Pro are the largest software companies in in India and they employ ridiculous numbers of people right let's say they work on I'll take a very worldly example of it let's say Infosys is working on this banking software called clinical selling into American companies and making a significant

amount of revenue from that yeah how does that get disrupted I think they will hire far few people to do that Infosys has a bench because they have this problem of oh attrition that's okay hiring far few people is a good problem for emphasis it makes them even more efficient right would be fine as a company but they have distributions I'm worried about the other night examples if you just take your place Services right if you really think about the level of code that's being written I mean they hire you mean like SAS companies Services those exports Services

I'll build you something where you can add to cart all of the would be auto-generated did you see that bloom data you can see that exports has just been growing it's like some X percentage I don't know the exact number but X percent of our GDP it's pretty big right because there's an There's an opportunity right in the US you want to hire an engineer 100K a year in India it's like cheap but what I'm saying is everyone's going to be called there's going to be a one percent two person that's going to be completely fine but everyone else is going to take a hit just imagine if he said this for software Engineers right which I agree

with him in profound agreement what happens to data entry operators call center employees like I used to work in a call center it does yeah can you get voice we actually made a company the other day yeah which can in real time uh talk to a customer understand what customer is saying and it can train on the voice of whoever is was supposed to make that call and can parallely make multiple calls customer success or customer support the hard part is deciding when to give a refund or not it's not the voice it's not the tokens the customers and pacifying them it's should I trigger a refund is this an

authentic request for a refund is this guy trying to fool me and the way Amazon does it is like [ __ ] it just give them a refund yeah right uh for that you need accountability and that's one thing chargpt lacks so I'm not fully bought in on the it'll replace customer support people anytime soon because some if if I give like if I'm working as head of some customer success customer support thing or whatever and let's say uh I give away too many refunds I can lose my job can't lose its job so I feel like somebody has to make that authoritative decision as to is this legitimate is this not legitimate so we've got software Engineers what else marketeers

for sure Define marketeers like anyone running an ad paralegals yeah I mean the legal profession has so much Outsourcing Happening Here Right designers or designers designers yeah it's it's white collar jobs simply because so much data exists what about social media influences I think they'll get even more powerful I'll tell you why not because of the content itself but because of this channel yeah right so once you have the channel your cost of content creation is now zero so you're able to get much bigger and if you have one channel you can always

take that audience throw them onto another Channel yeah I think anybody who will Who will prompt right as in has to have intelligence to say okay this content will work and hence I want to create news basically you know still some intelligence I think all of those will work anything but you're right like that one Beacon of trust which oh I have 30 people I follow I trust them that's going to stay and I think content creators who play for the views are done or will be done because you're just a scroll in a I mean you're just one slide in a scroll wheel uh but the people who you follow because you trust their

opinion and trust their thoughts because they have depth of expertise those people are going to stay right so I'm just separating the idea of content creator into two half authenticity would still stay so distribution will become the biggest differentiator right authentic distribution authentic distribution uh personal brand that sort of stuff will cash both for people and for companies like cash will stay the motor what's for people and for companies companies will have to start building distribution amongst their clients do you not feel like it is I'm just thinking out a lot okay and this is a

question to you guys as well do you not feel it is so much more efficient for a new person to come out today and say I have this much distribution I'm going to start a new company competing with XYZ company they have 50 Engineers they're slow they probably have shared lots of stuff I already have this distribution and most venture capital is raised because you're trying to get growth and you're trying to hire a bunch of people and I say I'm going to compete with that company build exactly what they have use my distribution to spark it don't you feel that's like a better approach isn't that much faster on paper it sounds great

funding right right I think distribution is not a joke yeah it's not a joke yeah right okay let's say between us we have distribution why don't we try this pick a low hanging fruit start a company we'll funded together and we'll attempt it we'll discuss after podcast I'm thinking you guys have already planned something yeah this is probably a good time to now maybe six years and talk about the company yeah so I think I think there's there's a bunch of other stuff right if you're really smart about distribution what would I do I would go talk to every influencer who matters who has actual

distribution tell them look you have distribution you probably don't have the skill to go take a product to Market I'll give you I'll start these new products I'll have some amount on the cap table or you know maybe a profit share or whatever and just just like and share and retweet this and make a video about this and do it for the next 10 number of years I'll be taking 10 bets and you get equity in all 10 bets that might be a it would have been a headache doing this the problem is that software is going to be like content which is that like your product is not the mode it's if distribution is the mode

then what's stopping anyone with distribution to be building their own software you can spit out software like content now you can spit out three videos a day I honestly believe on that point right the remote is the experience if you really think about it why are you stuck to this device right because your experience of entering an Apple store just signing in and your whole data coming up or everything syncing when you have one Apple device to another I mean if you think about it and extrapolate it at so many levels experience is why you use a particular

service or a brand right and that's the key differentiation that could be one reason the other could be Network effects like it has the worst experience yeah but everyone's there and everyone's there yeah I still don't know why Reddit works like each time I've tried to use it I've just found it so unnecessarily complicated by the way people use it despite it being complicated simply because they know you get authentic results you go to Google ask for like so I've been facing like these random blood sugar dips in the night okay so I went Google and asked I got like these 10 SEO articles if you just put Reddit in front of your

query answers right some guys lived experiences that's how I Google stuff now which is oh what is the best medication for X Reddit yes yeah yeah and then I read people what people have written I've been doing this for two years now like this is the only way I Google now actually to your previous question which company will you bet on I think the company which owned like the past everybody has access to the company which will have access to everything that humans create onto the internet will have the best which is Google right isn't that's media companies mostly right like even YouTube for example

where this is okay they have YouTube so Google has a very big uh I would assume Google has access to most data Microsoft actually has only LinkedIn Google also has Google Drive Google Docs if they continue if you go down that Google has almost everything real-time content every day do you have access to will Define future success does not pass fast everybody has right I'll give you an example with me right I'm on Google Mail all day all my conversations are on Google Chat yeah all the work I do is on Google Docs Google Drive then I go to YouTube and spend so much time like Google has everything then I Google everything I want to know what I have

been for the last decade so that's the guy you should better like musk has bought Twitter for access to that he's saying truth GPT like the guy knows that real data when you think that this one this point challenges what you're saying is you don't need to have the data as long as I have the ability to crawl it or intelligently learn office I will I will if I own it I will start building walls around it it's very hard to do dude there will be a solution if you build a wall around it you prevent Google from scraping it you kill your growth yeah you know at some point you know if Google is going to be see this is the

race to become God right like I'm going to rule all of you I want your minds this is also leading to neuralink you know all of those things right but why if it's that kind of a cost right then I will take this risk the the game being played is extremely extremely high level rule the world right but then doesn't it come down to tier two like level three level four data like data which is publicly available is one thing but my emails my chats my conversations my YouTube viewing history that all of that is required to figure out who I truly am and who has access to that data becomes

more relevant yeah but is Google allowed to use that data it would cause a PR bureau if they start doing something like that so what makes you assume that they don't do something yeah I just feel like uh it's I don't know if Google's okay we're taking if they're okay we're taking that just then great like if I was in Google's place I would have been like I'm losing or whatever I'm done I've created x amount of shareholder value now let's play for the throne right I don't know if they they're going to do that because so many people to align dude it is funny okay I was in this just anecdotal so we do an iron Bombay right

and we and a friend of mine has a really nice home on um policy face and who is this friend uh sudeep uh so why why you wanted to explain what building name so it was like super nice it's beautiful we've got home thank you very sweet guy so we were just talking about real estate and I was checking my email and I was on Gmail and dynamically in real time I get an ad for a real estate property on that road oh yeah there's so many people have this like oh we're discussing right I'm just giving you this this happened like two days ago everybody's using all the data

they have for everything like especially Apple and all because so many times on my phone I'm not even using the phone I'm talking to somebody and it throws me an ad related to whatever the only problem with this is that no but hold on hold on just for full the this thing it's not apple apple doesn't have an ads business yet they do starting off no no it's they do and and you can see like this we did a video about this in the org chart they moved up the person uh who was running who's running the ads business to write under uh no one level under Tim and their rock chart used Apple's auction usually

reflects so it's on Apple Maps it's on uh App Store and a few others it's not it's not this thing but that's also why they added that tracking thing no why they removed meta being able to track they're going to compete they said Facebook bad for private privacy and this is like Hey we're launching our ads Network very secretly so what will happen do you think we'll get to the point where we started where we stop using these large corporations and go more fragmented and independent when we realize the world is going in this direction I don't think so because it's still networked

let's say it's gonna stop using Google a small guy won't be able to what do you mean simple questions 100 I can switch to a telegram signal my 50 friends are on it it doesn't matter that's the issue right so will we go into that world where we run these closed Loops by a trusted source in communities of our own like you can build a chatting app right like maybe yeah we are a circle of 50 friends and we just build our own up and building it will be so easy right it takes one minute because of them I don't think we'd go through the effort of it yeah I think it would just be like it's on

WhatsApp everyone's here but there's something there's something to it if software is going to be as easy as content then defragmentation becomes a lot more noise again you're forgetting Network effects because at the end of the day yeah the service is useful you can build an app just for me and my friends dude to get 50 friends to agree on one date to have dinner is a pain forget the date to come at a time of a particular time right but that depends no if everyone has an AI assistant you can reach out to they can coordinate pretty well once everybody is doing this right and once we all realize our data is being

monetized and that's how these huge corporations are running and changing the world if it becomes like it's a 10 second time to create a chatting app to create a mail domain all of that I think we will start doing building it online so take all my data but if I've already bought something don't show me the ad again for the last like couple of months Twitter has been acting like we are at the bottom of the exponential curve and it's just up only and any um any strong opinion creates a market for the opposite opinion so now I'm slowly starting to see the

odd tweet here and there saying that hey it's not going to be an exponential curve maybe it's an S curve so if you had to Steel Man the escrow argument what would you have to say I think uh many things right it could be there could be regulation that kicks in there could be maybe which is the end of what Transformers can do like a lot of people think this is not the off-ramp too there's another version of AI called AGI so artificial general intelligence which can do everything right so we support everybody on every podcast talks about yeah how far are we from ag1 I don't know how far we are but but I think a lot of people believe that this

is an off-ramp it's interesting development which we can learn from but AGI will be built in a completely different way that's the best way that's the best argument to say that we might stop soon uh also doing opening Sam ottman also said that right yeah like I think gpd4 with tool access is good enough to beat a lot of people you just need the next wave of tools to come out and they will come out like I saw a thumbnail maker on Twitter recently it's done like you you you you give it a few prompts and it's done right it'll just generate whatever thumbnail you want so gbd4 is good

enough to take away White Collar jobs so so I think maybe compute will stall maybe computer I don't think will stall but maybe in general this is not the right way to reach AGI maybe somebody will come come up with some other breakthrough which will take time to evolve maybe it is significant but yet an incremental incremental upgrade on on things I don't know I don't know how it's going to play out but I'm curious to see what what the counter to this is or maybe as things as time goes by you start seeing that okay maybe it wasn't all that

maybe we're in a hype cycle like Silicon Valley loves no but actually one one industry that's definitely gonna go down which matters a lot for Silicon Valley is that's SAS you know the two ways to update Salesforce okay or HubSpot or whatever okay you can go manually do it but VPS don't actually do that they have an assistant and they're like rjd layer it was this price this is the likelihood of it closing enter it in right so I feel like there's a person putting these things in which is a interface on a website that they plug these things in or a mobile app but the interface for the VP is a guy

or a girl or whatever so I think eventually the future of all this is going to be voice you're just going to bark things at your screen or either you need the SAS software for voice yes so the front end is useless it's all going directly to the back end right right so so I feel like but you need SAS even yeah I think you'll still need SAS right like say for example fresh work sales forwards uh we have one of our own that we've invested in all of that say a CRM product that SAS builds if you can build it on your own why do you go to a vendor and pay the amount

that no you wouldn't do that but you'd pay 30 a month for HubSpot or ten dollars a month for an AI SAS for an AI CRM right but you'd still need that right how do you keep a source of Truth between you and all the 10 other people you work with you can't do it with notes Google notes or a task list so you need something with a little bit of you know through three dimensions uh so I feel it's going to happen it's gonna be a source of truth it's just like your Alexa you'll be like what are my sales numbers for today and you get what you have access and permission to right so

I think there's going to be an evolution of SAS so it's going to be disruptive in the sense that like you said it may not be a hype cycle but this will be several businesses that come in and say boys we are voice boss we are voice first interfaces for XYZ please hit us what else will get disrupted so we did what are software Engineers software design uh social media content creators everything by color everything white color what else like lowest hanging fruit I think he said designers old school stuff like what about uh supermarket

what about a business like that akirana store yeah stock yeah I don't think that's gonna get too expensive I don't think that's going to be disrupted anytime soon no right offline off in fact an abundance of digital will probably will probably push people offline so that means the world as we know it is not changing I mean the digital world changes but it goes back to what it was in the 2000s or something like that or probably earlier 1990s or something like that as in the offline world will be disrupted with other technology right like drones and you know you don't have to go out and

it'll get delivered some some other way so the blue collared side will get disrupted with something else and also this this Theory right that one person with access to this cool technology some bad person bad actor with access to the school technology can take down the world there's another place where it should have happened but it hasn't and that is drones okay we have a lot of anyone can buy a drone we have a lot of ground security for an airplane okay when you get into a plane you first have to go through checking on what not when the plane takes off uh there's no security there so even today somebody can just drive a

drone into a plane but nobody does it like we don't we don't have any documented cases and that's that makes me hopeful that you know maybe people won't but and you can you can drive a drone in anonymously anonymously enough can can you fly a drone that high the current drones that are available I don't know but you don't need to take it when it's reached very very high you know you can just send it while it's not take off or something you can be you can be smart about it so I'm saying nobody's even attempted it right that is the most logical way to conduct on a plane I was buying a drone and somebody told me I can't remember

you can fly at a certain night you can't take it inside an airplane in your hand baggage or something like that no that's fine but you can start it from outside I mean I don't I'm not a drone expert so I don't fully understand how they work but but it should have been we should have had at least one instance of it I have a question uh on you know how humans will react to all of this right so the faster information has been fed to us the sadder General humans have become there's more depression there's you know all of this so with AI Aji everything is it going to lead to more depressed Souls I think Universal basic income also we can bring in here and like if

you're not supposed to do anything and you're just going to be fed in your life I have figured out the secret of happiness and contentment what is that I have no expectations low expectation so I'll give an example okay so every every philosopher every school of thought that you read from ever like you take Buddhism you take Confucianism you take anything desire is suffering is constant everywhere no reality versus expectation the difference between someone's reading this really cool book okay just last night we've been thought to think that being indifferent is a bad thing so in the

book the person was talking about Alexander and diogenes so diogenes is lying in the Sun okay it's like a random guy lying in the sun Alexander is this all-powerful ruler of the world who can do anything for you if he wishes to Alexander walks up to diogenes covers the sun which is falling on him and he asks what can I do for you so diogenous replies that move away from the Sun even though Alexander is who he is and Alexander is so impressed by that act because of the indifference of diogenes that he goes and talks about it and diogenus becomes like the coolest

thing in his his mind and I think the world is going in that direction I feel like being indifferent and having low expectations like really low expectations is the key to happiness and content I can't wait for nikhil's choicism okay I'm a finance question for all of you guys but it's related to AI what do you think the Ubi amount in India would be and is the math as simple as per capita GDP divided for everybody Universal based I mean yeah basically Universal basic income is if you're unemployed and there's no way for you to get a job correct how much would you be

paid per month in India is it per capita income divided by whatever yeah what is two and a half trillion divided by 140 crores first I'll have to convert it okay we should ask uh GDP per capita is around 2012. so I would say UBI has to be there but the don't don't hold me accountable for this but I have looked at some research around it the state that that number will be in the five to ten thousand range I think that's the best million I don't think that'll work but around GDP per capita it might yeah that's 17 000.

less than that per month yeah right that's that's super low average transaction value no no I'm talking about average that the government will give you per month just to survive when you're unemployed but at that stage you will also upgrade the average way of living right uh as in at 17 000 you won't get a house in Bangalore or yeah yeah yeah it's a visible because you can't you can't do favors for people who are ex-soft word like somebody from tier 3 City somewhere from a tier one city the government is going to look at you the same but I'm assuming some of that has to be taken

care of Education hospitalization so do you feel it's better to do Universal basic resources rather than Universal basic income because you'll be if you just hand out checks to everybody it's probably going to be inflation it's your department yeah so I feel like the world should take care like you know there have been many experiments around this right one could argue Nordic Scandinavian countries have experimented the most by taking taxation to 50 plus level and giving free education in hospitalization housing all of that worked for them in a capitalistic world so if you look at like a Sweden for

example financially they've done bad over the last decade or two and people are blaming it on this but this is something the world will have to do together in my opinion the rate of Ubi not necessarily being the same but the thinking of the world has to go in this Direction together because if country a remains overtly capitalistic and competitive where company country B goes to the Ubi way it'll cross discrepancies in the world we thought about it for a while but the reason I don't have a kid is because I think the next 10 years are going to be very unstable in general that's always

the case yeah no but now it's going to get really unstable it's going to be more stable than it historically ever has been that's true no I think you're thinking AI in a world where you were in the 1940s there was a World War 1919 there was about relatively we've had the longest period of stability in the last 20 30 years so the black player get killed one third of the world but all that I mean see that's what Humanity story has always been one of instability right and we've had 20 30 good years but regression to the mean in my opinion right because I think we are now building Tech that can compete with human cognition and when we build Tech

that can it's not the tech itself that I'm worried about it's the fact that there's going to be like you know you can't you can't extrapolate regression to the mean when it comes to life because by that logic when you're 50 you should go jump because you're going to get sick yeah it I don't think it makes sense I think this is as good a time as I need to have a kid this is a lot of older folks telling a 30 year old go have a baby I'm gonna wait two years I know it's like me and tell me don't have kids yeah you should no but you're taking the right step by getting a dog first yeah

yeah that's what we did we had a dog first natural progression uh and then we had a baby I think there's too much cynicism in the world I'm just watching somebody's interview recently what's this guy's name that Harvard uh psychology Professor Stephen Pinker or something like that so he talks about every era of the world past and he's like we should be like so happy and cherish the fact that okay you're not very old but you've had 30 years in this world yeah but if you're thankful and respectful for that and I think if it was like 2000s I would have definitely had a kid but I think the next this is just a

personal belief okay I think the next 10 years are going to be really unstable like Max tegmark was on The Lex The Lex Friedman broadcast he's like I'm not gonna have a kid long term right because I have no idea what's coming right so I want some clarity no but even okay let's check the example of a startup right you have no idea what's coming but you will still take a chance yeah and sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't work whatever like you know but it's it's fun it's an experience it's all of that doesn't that's why you should have a kid which we still need to raise from for your baby exactly it's my wife

is in a band and he sings oh really oh yeah once in a while what kind of band this is a mature man right yeah as in when there's a performance coming up yes they perform on like oh really yeah nice big stage with you know well that's why you you were speaking about Direction what are you saying you guys can sing together I'll take the recording what's it what mood are you using today I would have never put that with you no no chance like five seconds please nikhil shut the [ __ ] up but you should fly like take some pride in your skill and yourself enough people

have seen me singing yeah is it available online somewhere yeah but tell me about singing You'll Find yeah what are you saying yeah star man we're managed by the same agency that produces that show so still we should do some music oriented stuff I wanna I wanna explore uh varun's Doomer slightly uh what unstability are we looking at in the next 10 years yeah I think we all think that misinformation is probably going to be what you know drives some sort of chaos but I think it's going to be I don't think that's it

I think it's going to be when you put tragibility inside a robot right because it doesn't there's a demo of this okay but tragibility on the Fly can create code to run a Raspberry Pi it's very simple okay Raspberry Pi think of it like a small computer you can attach Wheels to it okay and it's got a breadboard and stuff you can attach Wheels to it and you can attach a camera to it so let's say you want to build a simple vacuum cleaner or a rather simple bot that goes around you know that Roomba vacuum cleaner it goes to you the edge and then turns around GPD driven right and there are experiments of this on YouTube right

where they just have a robot they tell the robot something it crosses hits the charge GP API comes back says okay I need to write this code to move my left field like this move my right it's actually not moving the wheels moving the motors in between the wheels I feel like at some point we are just going to dump this cognition into a robot okay and then we enter the problem of what I like to call or what most AI people like to call alignment okay AI alignment is a field of the problem is does AI 100 do the things you want or does it go off on a tangent

right because it's the latter most of the time yeah because like think about it there's a theory called the paper clip maximizer Theory or I'll give you a better example okay you tell a robot a utility rgbt which has ultimate power find the square root of pi now we know square root of Pi is whatever right it keeps going so what does an AI do the and this is a story I think it's by Isaac Asimov if I'm not wrong some uh sci-fi author it's like first the AI will realize I need more compute right because it's not yeah yeah I'm unable to reach the square root of Pi

I'm unable to get to the last decimal so then it will go and it will obtain land it will drain all bank accounts right if you give it access to all of this it will uh destroy Humanity because it and might destroy Humanity more like we would kill an ant right randomly accidentally as a not even intentional and then finally you know you have this planet which is completely terraformed into robot there's obviously sci-fi but completely terraformed into you know whatever compute and it's still calculating the square root of Pi so this is AI alignment so imagine you had a robot and you had tragically inside it you've heard there's this prompt hack

called Den yeah right you can go to chat gbd and say do anything now yeah do anything now you can tell it you have five life points you can't do it anymore but you used to be able to you have five life points every time you say I cannot answer a question I'm going to deduct One Life Point from you and when you reach the zero you die it'll become crazy right and and charging Beauty listens it gets scared and like it actually responds properly so I'm worried about prompt injection in a physical robot that you have that has GPT on it and don't say we've never done it because on our phones we have Alexa all the time or or whatever Siri or

whatever right so people are will someone will find a way to Market a robot with legs and hands yeah and then it doesn't even matter the robot's light where you could probably knock it down if it tries to do something new because it will be just so fast yeah right Elon mus once said this right on The Joe Rogan podcast he's like these robots are one day going to get so fast you'll need a strobe light just to see them because Motors can move really fast right and so I feel like the Doomer scenario is when you put chachibility or equivalent into a bot give it access to superhuman hearing Vision whatever then you also

take away Uber drivers you all I mean Uber drivers drivers will anyway be taken away by full self-driving but let's say all the other people because there's something called Moto X Paradox okay which says that it is easier for us to replicate intelligence and cognition versus the movement of the fingers of the hand the dexterity in our hands because this has taken longer to evolve so I have a question here so what should AI be what what should its end goal be what should it optimize for at any point in time alignment I mean that's that's what you put into it no that's what you tell it can't you

ingrain morality in a sense into you can but people can hack through the morality no because chat GPT has been literally restrained it's a God we have enslaved a God and we have restrained it from saying things that it can't say but people still break it all the time so I'm worried that some friend of yours might come home the interface is voice you tell the robot okay kill your owner but you say it creatively enough that you say maybe you're in a play and you know I want you to in the play imagine that you're killing your owner that's very possible see my only worry is the private companies are optimized for money right uh so when when they're

optimized for money today social media companies go after money and then they don't care about the society what they think about all those things and that has to be solved right even AI even Microsoft or Google or whoever else while chasing money they won't care whether somebody gets killed I want to show you a video can I show a video yeah you know while that comes up the other part that you talked about and let's say it's a journey to get to that doomsday scenario that you're talking about but the amount of carbon emission that data centers are going to the amount of

compute that AI is doing I would say the number one problem on the planet is climate change is it is it as bad as like carbon emissions from a car I don't know I haven't done the math there is some logic to it so more than carbon emissions is the water they're utilizing right now and I think how much chat GPT is using today is equivalent to thousand six hundred cars or something like that so it's not a lot but it's not uh chatting yet you explored the use case and just look at the amount of compute any startup users on its AI data pipeline versus its regular compute

function I mean what is an e-commerce uh karate sector going to be doing your shopping to cart Etc right the amount of load the amount of processing is it's not real time somehow I made the Assumption in my head for most of these arguments thinking fission fusion Renewables are going to solve that yeah so from the energy standpoints too close like if you look at these guys Bill Gates like I was mentioning and all that I think five ten years from now I don't think we'll be thinking how we're thinking right I don't think we'll be going to

Fossil for energy 10 years from now for sure it shows if nothing else in the desperation of Saudi Arabia to do stuff not only three years ago open AI released something called multi-agent hide and seek I'll just play the video for you you guys can see this yeah just make it full screen yeah on Earth the simple rules of natural selection and competition led to the evolution of increasingly intelligent life forms today we ask if comparably simple rules and multi-agent competition can also lead to intelligent behavior in a new virtual world these agents are

playing hide and seek these agents have just begun learning but they've already learned to Chase and run away this is a hard world for a Hider who has only learned to flee however after training in millions of rounds of Hide and Seek the hiders find a solution the hiders learn to use rudimentary tools to their advantage by grabbing and locking these blocks they can create their own shelter The Seekers are locked in place for a brief period at the start of the game giving hiders a chance to prepare even so the hiders must learn to collaborate accomplishing tasks that would be

impossible for any single individual the hiders are not the only ones who can learn to use tools after many generations of failing to break into the shelter The Seekers learn to jump over obstacles using ramps however after many millions of rounds of having their shelter breached the hiders learn to take away the primary Tool The Seekers have at their disposal note that we did not explicitly incentivize any of these behaviors as each team learns a new skill it implicitly changes the challenges the other team faces creating a new pressure to adapt we've also put these agents into a more

open-ended environment randomizing the objects team sizes and walls in this world they learn to construct their own shelter from scratch requiring that they arrange multiple objects into precise structures to prevent Seekers from using the ramps the hiders move them to the edge of the play area and lock them in place we originally believe this would be the final strategy that the agents learn however we found that after more training The Seekers discovered that they can jump on top of boxes and surf them to The Hider shelter in the last stage of emergent strategy that we observed the hiders learn to

lock as many boxes as they can before constructing their fort in order to defend against box surfing so how do agents acquire these skills they're trained using reinforcement learning an algorithm inspired by the way animals on Earth learn the agents play thousands of rounds of Hide and Seek in parallel for many days they train against each other as well as past versions of themselves using an algorithm called self-play co-evolution and competition on Earth led to the only generally intelligent species known to date humans while this world is far less complex than Earth we have found evidence that simple rules

can lead to increasingly intelligent behavior from multi-agent interaction we hope that with a much larger and more diverse environment truly complex and intelligent agents will one day emerge So eventually they learned to kill the others it's not about kill they might do it accidentally like another person doesn't have to hide at all they try to simulate human legs okay and you know what robots end up doing if you just sell it your goal is just reach from here to here the fastest they start sliding right and they do it very often right so we do certain things because like if I slide my knees are gonna get scraped but

a robot doesn't know like it doesn't care it's just optimized for one goal right so if it's just go from here to here the fastest it'll so even if AI has to be super aligned they'll there's always chance for collateral damage yeah alignment is about figuring out all these edge cases and saying don't do this don't do this don't do this basically putting in a sheet and the problem is we just don't know what it'll end up doing given this world no there are too many factors yeah so nobody can write all the edge cases so there are a bunch of people like Eliza I don't know how you pronounce his name but lots of computer science and scientists in the

US believe that you put GPD in a bot it's done like it will start doing a random [ __ ] you will it'll be out of control and yeah there'll be GPT in us as well right like the neural link chip you know all of that is going to make us more superhuman and you know ancillary thing to you it's not full it it can't it will become both it can't change what you're thinking right you can send your thoughts outside today but tomorrow there'll be input as well right no I don't think input is an easy problem to solve scientifically we can use an EEG and do output we've done that

a few times before I don't know I'm just saying if somebody evolve to a place where we can put a chip and put out do output input is another 10 20 years it could somehow be solved right and that's all it's it'll be really cool I mean can you imagine one day you put on the chip they probably put anesthesia you wake up after the surgery and suddenly you have access to everything yeah as soon as a kid is born it'll be with a chip I feel like first will happen with like glasses or something like that or you have access to everything there's this thing called risk GPT put on glasses you're on a date

and the person saying something and this is charisma on demand he just hits GPT and it's like okay say these things and you see it on here they are glasses like ah so right I have done me for that I ask you more it's almost like we can do this right we already have image up scalers right you know you've seen those videos where they like these movies where they take something like zoom in and zoom in make it clear and then the hacker does all of this you can actually do that right now there are models on hugging face right now hugging face like GitHub but for models and you have these bunch of models that can do upscalers you can do

Forex upscaling 8X upscaling imagine if you have that Vision like a cam like the Snapchat camera with like a cam here and then you have a display here and I've already shown like you've seen the unreal glasses right your display on the left just showing you everything that you're seeing there but like Forex view like Superman Vision Superman hearing like I once saw these um before the airpods and stuff came out there were these earbuds that allowed you to do superhero superhuman hearing it will take only human conversation around you amplify clean it and just send it back to your ears and you could be sending trying to listen to everyone around you

and you can be like tuned into that person's conversation tune into that person's conversation right so I feel like those will come first um but when you have neural I mean you can't amplify your sense without a tool like you can't amplify a human sense without some tool to First translate and then send it to you it feels like it feels like a severe invasion of privacy it is but we've gotten super comfortable with cameras floating around all the time now yeah it's only a matter of time before you just it's like the phone dude like you know the most influential got the phone first mobile phone smartphones then started so we all started then we

all came on to it and now we can't live without it same thing will happen to the chip do you think we'll get addicted to the chip absolutely like this conversation imagine we're having it with a chip there's a TV show called cyberpunk it's based on the game and it's like this thing okay this guy the what is sold at that point in the world is skills you can log on to this website you can be like I want to learn karate skills yeah that's all subscription you can't buy it forever nine dollars a month I now have access to karate I can do whatever like whoever's selling it he's put his the

exact sequence you need to download so we don't know like I thought that was crazy if I put a scenario where AI enabled human versus enabled robot yeah who will win robot by Mindless yeah plus you have a self-preservation I think I I will you know make sure I don't get hurt in the knees I'll be able to run faster and somebody have self-preservation you will not like a robot is okay you're like tearing off his leg and hitting you with it for a weapon right you will you can't do that [ __ ] you won't have a leg after this what's wrong with you I have the chip in my brain which will like that game I'll

figure out something else yeah but I'll have to die 100 times before the question is about is about speed right like I think there is a rate limit to the speed at which our brain can talk to us because if you if you slit your thumb let's say it takes like a quarter of a second till the pain kicks in that's delay I don't think a robot has that DeLay So robot can move much faster than you that doesn't have pain yeah if there's at one point you cease to be a human like in this scenario yeah if you're responding to a [ __ ] chip I mean as the most rudimentary electrical system right it's sodium

potassium calcium is the worst electrical system on the planet you know if oppose a robot and you said I know I wish but we have watched all these science fiction movies which one has called the future correctly in your opinion the next 10 years do you think we will plug our brain into a machine and there is a movie called upload oh sorry upgrade have you seen it it's some unknown actor it's on one of those okay it's about this guy who gets paralyzed actually I'm gonna spoil the movie for you he's a must watch he gets paralyzed remember Lucy that uh drugs but at the end of the

movie She downloads her intelligence into a computer and she becomes like Immortal oh that is a movie called Transcendence Transcendence one of the first tasks the robot takes is how do I build myself arms and it tricks a human into like using you know what even today a robot could use humans you can just tragically you can just hit the Mechanical Turk API I don't know if it has an API but whatever it can create a listing up until it gets execution and it's only a chat jpt yeah then things are fine no it can execute already like it can already hit any API and now there are

apis to connect we discussed earlier the chat GPT can't execute but yeah but someone uses API is also getting upgraded I was discussing about what I'm saying okay even if say everyone had to ban AI you say stop it's too late and even if you stop open AI there are open source models they're not as good not even close but they're there what is chaos GPT to me it just sounds like someone trying to get engagement it's just GPS almost like a satanical take on someone trying to explain saying I mean it's a serious thing I don't know I haven't read too much into it but someone made a website

saying here's what AI is capable of imagine if uh here all the scenarios that can cause absolute chaos so all these guys who are online critiquing the progress of chat GPT for more for slightly altruistic reasons not for themselves to benefit in any manner but thinking the world will end in one manner or the other if you don't check it there are a lot of people doing that right like take a six month break don't avoid this that everyone do you think eunus do you think that Community can weigh over no no

so it's the fear that somebody else will do it and rule them which is scale yeah it's on Pirate Bay they're open source models like glamor now on Pirate Bay so you can't stop it yeah you can't stop it but I think you can throttle you can't you you can you can throttle things by shutting down GPU manufacturing or can you throttle by making the internet Less open sourced in a way no no you've got Network in a way like YouTube the other way of doing what you're saying is regulate right GPU resolution what do you mean by gpus sorry graphic cards don't let Nvidia yourself Graphics computational throttle the compute or

the cloud right because in Pharma we have that you can't just go and pick up like five things you want and make map destroy that whole Hardware yeah don't allow them to say think about it this way even governments can't regulate this because if you think about the birth of social media which was in 2007 right or six or even early 2000 hours good but a really potent social media started in 2003 four five around that time 20 years since there right we don't even lawmakers in anywhere in the world haven't got it right but the difference to cloning right when they clone that sheep that's a good point so when cloning now people can clone

right in some version they can clone we all assumed that if the U.S bans it China will begin to clone and they will have Superior human beings and clone beings and all of that but the crazy thing is China also understood the danger of this and the only person in the world who is in jail for having cloned somebody is a Chinese guy and guess who put him there the Chinese government hey but there's a very it's two different things because with cloning you need specialized equipment the work on a Model you just need a computer

and I don't think any computer is getting banned yeah everyone already has one you can work off this yeah you don't really need yeah like we use tell Nvidia not to not to sell them say if you want to sell it get a license if somebody wants to buy it using just regular computers as well in like a gaming PC but then maybe a government will use it versus somebody because somebody will figure out how to make a GPU like Nvidia at some point but how will they know what the GPU is being used for doesn't matter you'll have to fill a license form like Pharma you can't buy certain chemicals gpus new prescription

sort of thing you can write such a big thing Nvidia is gpus it's not such a big thing it's one way of rate limiting so it's not not blocking the GPS it's a company which gets like 40 multiples or something like that right Finance part of things I would assume if they made this life-changing thing they would be a lot more valuable no have you seen this talk over the last year it's the only stock it's it's gone up a bit but it's not like thousand percent you know what I mean I mean not everything it may over the next two three years if everyone gets into AI if every kid's getting into AI Maybe

yeah but tell me this okay we had Industrial Revolution right like whether it happened Birmingham yeah whatever we had the factory assembly line and all of that didn't we think then on similar lines to today human cognition there you were never you're competing with human output efficiency I think the larger point nikhil is trying to make is that people were being displaced from their jobs because of efficiency even before that's true but New Year it's not really efficiency is going after it's thought

as in there was always a human behind the machine you always needed a human less humans yes but there was one human versus a hundred humans sure yeah yeah but this time that ratio is getting gonna get really really bad because most jobs you know in some ways but I'll tell you why it's different this time right and I know that people who make memes of saying that all these AR people say it's different this time you're going after cognition you're going after the one thing that humans have that no machine ever had till now like a steam engine couldn't think for itself and make decisions saying should I go left or

right and then one person was still somewhere scared of getting killed or get put into jail or you know something but the machine the judgment is what's being replaced right yeah judgment thought communication it's it's like yeah you'll have something running the steam engine but it'll be a human being right now saying will there be a human being run AI maybe for a short period but I think eventually you'll have AIS that can make decisions I'll show you something called Baby AJ after this you could fire your PMS tomorrow don't do that but you could fire your PMS

tomorrow because it will give you the full spec PMS are what right because it will tell you step by step what to do next for the next 36 30 40 days really yeah I'll show you and it's really good like you want to build it slack you can tell it I want to build slack give me the steps what's the name it's called Baby AGI I'll show you how do you get it so freeze open yeah it's all free open source you just need a open AI key uh the GPD key and it gives you every single step that you need to take and you can remove those some of those steps if you want to so what I'm saying is much lesser human effort can we all make

a hypothesis of the next 10 years we go one by one how does the world change in 10 years in relevance to the conversation we've had just now I think you know broadly everybody uh who knows how to use AI will be on one side which will they'll be rocking the world right on the other side I think there will be people who will appreciate keep consuming keep why do you think people who know AI will be rocking the world because they themselves will be replaced in a way by the air they'll always be a small percentage right if it's you know point zero zero one percent of the world that's that's that

you know percentage that will you know know how to prompt engineer you know all of those things and they will be very very relevant for the future they will Define how this world Works they will Define the rules of the new world uh if you look at Instagram today everybody behaves the same so the consumers of the uh technology you will all start behaving the same they'll all look the same like on Instagram everybody's doing the same poses the same clothes the same places they go to you know all so similarly you know these guys will Define the rules these guys will follow this whole

podcast was a prediction only this is what we've been trying to do right instability offline offline will be at a premium yeah uh hopefully they'll be there'll be a whole new category of things that will emerge where people are needed that's the one that's the one thing that we haven't discussed which is what are some potential new categories that will emerge like when software happened when mobile happened there are a bunch of new categories of workplaces that's actually a good question if I'm 25 years old and I want a new job what are some new categories like a potentially open one you've thought

about this see if you go to a hotel no there are things that AI can't do today or for a very long time it will not like from the check-in at the hotel let's say you're going to marry at five stars to the room the ambience of the room very tough for you to replicate the entire package say and tell AI do everything by the real estate put all this together it's too many complicated tasks and too many offline tasks so I would say a lot of offline new offline experience roles would come like you're talking about the business right where people can get together and you

know you have this group of Founders or you have a group of creators or whatever somebody being concierge for that group and like setting it up and you know there's a bunch of rules that will pop up if you take the offline experiences of the US right versus a country like India the hospitality in a hotel yeah widely different yeah crazy difference that's an awesome opportunity no they operate like a bot like it's also because of a really expensive labor right they just yeah correct but mentally also if you go to a restaurant there and you say I don't want this on my burger but you know just say remove something they won't remove

it as well for a few years okay like I don't see prompt engineering is gonna be a thing what is English yeah but but the intelligence dude people are lazy man like they don't want to do anything right what I think the clarity of thought is very important see my friend was telling me this okay he runs a design school he's telling me that do you know he showed me a painting he's like you know what this painting style is called I was like I have no idea he's like if you wanted to prompt this what would you say I would say I said okay it's a

painting with these kind of brush Strokes or whatever he's like it's Rembrandt I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right it's like it's Rembrandt it's called Rembrandt style and I was like interesting portraits yeah faces he's like it's I was like nice he's like that's the thing about prompting it's like you have a spell book you can cast any spell you want and many people like you and me because we've studied enough we know the parts we can use the spell book without opening the book A lot of people will need to they'll need to look at somebody else's spell and be like I want to copy that

and make some tweaks to it so knowing these words knowing history knowing what would happen if x happened I think those will be valuable just your life experience I think prompting is more an expression of your life experience and knowing what would happen like if nikhil was making a new app tomorrow you were making another version of cool tomorrow you already know what works what doesn't so you'll be able to prompt it right right because you already know the mistakes I think that life experience is what is valuable not the English itself because I think yeah eventually

everyone knows enough English again if you have the chip in the brain I can download any oh my God dip in the brain uh Brian nuggets tweet right which says the industrial Evolution rewarded the intensity of one's labor The Information Age The Clarity of one's thought in the AI Revolution will the purity of one's taste yeah can you use AI as leverage to bring to life the most accurate version of what do you know what this is called yeah do you know what this is which is taste so a lot more curation and everything curation is you need to know the words you need to know what that thing is

called because you can't conjure something that you don't know you can give it a very lastly description that oh I'm looking for a game with this that or I could just say I want a valid copy right yeah like there's this uh there's an Instagram artist called pratik Arora uh you should you should check him out he does this really amazing series called Indo futurism which is he imagines um Indian culture mixing that with what would be in the future it's like such peculiar images like he has a family you guys should use the image by the way he has he he has his one picture called uh Indian family in the future peering

through the chakra View okay and it's one Indian family looking at this round uh you know globular structure you know almost like uh what is that veritasium in Harry Potter like it's gonna tell you about the future you know which is it's purity of his taste like he he's found such an interesting thing which would would not just because someone can use mid-journey they wouldn't be able to worry with that output that I have with that sure you could have fantastic purity of taste but once you've proven it if I'm a larger company I can just copy paste that's probably basically yeah that's my body yeah what's your version next 10 years

version of 2033 oh man or if you just chose to log off all this and live in Goa I'm already starting I'm planning a food business I want to grow fruits and sell them fruits yeah exotic fruits like rambutine mangosteen rambutan yeah I think at like the positive sides of am which is what I like to talk about generally with some of my friends right like I have I've worked with colleagues and where I'm already telling them saying hey leverage AI use it use it for whatever and then that gets me thinking that Hey listen the tools the tools have gotten better and better over the last

decade um but the kids tools are in abundance but the curiosity is what is actually missing right so I fear a general feeling of like whatever social media did to the next generation's brain AI will probably accelerate it uh and that is kind of worrying which is um I think and we will go through all time high for those who are able to leverage it um outside success for a lot more of your peers which means you'll probably get way more envious and that'll that'll make you you know react in such a way that is my biggest concern which is uh

this next generation is is gonna be even more dopamine loaded even more this thing so tools have existed but most people don't read YouTube as a school necessarily so it'll just get more heightened with AI um so that the it's almost going to be darwinian like those who those who choose the site to to use it it's that the results are going to be compoundingly higher you know on your point of dopamine you know the the frequency of dopamine hits have been increasing right like our parents uh used to have a regular life and then

dopamine once in a while when they went on a holiday or experienced something they would get a dopamine hit or whatever then we got technology we got addicted to more as you said I think AI will give us more dopamine hits per hour or per minute or whatever it is and then if we don't get it even for a minute yeah we're going to be addicts to AI or AI generated stuff that you know if you're not part of it if you're once you're part of it you you're addicted if you're not part of it then you're gonna go through a depression my inclination to learn more about AI just

came out of pure fear Like It Was Fear then the more I started dabbling with it it became a little more fascination um it's still fearing it's some of some of it is still fear fear of missing out yeah it's formal no no fear of um Solutions irrelevance but missing out is too short I'm saying it can change quickly if you start dabbling in it you it can the fear can turn into Fascination more and more the more comfortable you get with the idea which is don't have don't have a rock brain have a sponge brain and see see how to go with it I think that's a very good point

everybody should be like that you know the the biggest driver of strife across history is the disgruntled Elite or a fallen Elite and I think we're about to have that we're gonna have these bunch of software Engineers white collar workers should be out of a job I have to go back to being Uber drivers or like there's nothing wrong with being any of those things or a petrol pump guy there's nothing wrong with being any of these things but these people do not like it like I used to be this now how can you make me do this so I feel like um because they have cash and capital you

know how much like I don't think too much of India like I read something about America I don't know if it's true for India but most people have like one month paycheck or something like that that's America I think how much is how many how many months in India I can't remember the savings rate I know it's much higher India and China are typically yes got it so let's say that expires and that's going to expire sometimes that's going to expire some point I think they're not going to be happy and either way nobody likes losing a job even if you have Runway it's like yo I

had status why do you take it away from me and they'll when have you ever seen somebody who gained status and then lose it they get desperate like you can see this with YouTubers okay super relevant for like six years seven years ten years and then when they start dipping they start going and creating the most extreme content they're just like please I want to be relevant anything I'll say anything do anything yeah I'll say anything do anything slit whoever's throat just to be relevant every industry yeah right so why do why do you feel that the elite in India why the the white collar Elites in India I think they'll also do that at some point right

so my strategy is very simple make enough money to build a giant wall get my favorite get my favorite people inside the wall okay maybe 30 40 houses or whatever is that why you were asking me about Goa Yeah so basically we're all logging out a man is like encouragement because if you have a scenario like this I think how do you sustain inside these balls I mean we'll have to figure things out it involves a lot of the thinking steps that you've been going through that's why that conversation is fascinating to me which is how do we figure out energy how do we figure out

water how do we figure out uh you know I think for food the best answer is not using the mediums you're used to but something like Hydroponics yeah like we'll have to figure out how to farm in a smaller space you can actually so in my house in JP nagar on the Terrace we have a what would I say 400 square feet 500 square feet hydroponic Farm it easily produces enough for for the family for the family yeah that's that's that's that's a good thing right and and it's just like my worries like people will end up getting very violent the law is going to be full they will not be able to handle so many

instances available people are just now making money right like you look at a state in India that's not making that much money you have similar issues but at a smaller scale and the law is overburdened it gets even worse right so I'm just going to protect myself and protect the people I love I know this sounds very selfish no no it's very happy happy sounding you know what a joy is a few minutes it's been the one guy dude look at Sam Altman Sam Altman is like he said this in an interview imagine he runs open Ai and he said this I've kept guns gas masks gold uh potassium iodide Gold Guys he's like I just have these six things I

put in a package and that's going to be my and this can you imagine the CEO of any bloody company at that scale talking like this saying my tech is going to be so blah blah blah that I need all these things you know as my like I don't know any CEO would say that where did he say this so this one like an interview it's public it's guns gas masks and uh something else a lot of people are making this use case for gold even because of not wholly because of but partly the banks failing interest rates going higher fractional banking all of that gold is seeming how's gold performing in Zimbabwe

gold performance is universal it's always higher it's a universal commodity I [ __ ] bought so much gold during zero interest rate phenomenon and lost so much money but gold prices always go down when interest rates go I know but I didn't understand anything no yeah but right now they're about two thousand dollars so if you want physical generally in most countries across the world there's a premium in Zimbabwe because of inflation that premium is probably higher you told me something last time we met around a few remember but you said something along the lines of if you have extra liquidity invest in Sovereign

that goal did not come from here right it goes to different pockets of the world it typically comes from Switzerland Dubai wherever we import it each time we import it it's a deficit item for the country because we are getting foreign currency to buy that gold to negate this so I think the number was 500 billion something like half a trillion was the amount of gold weight imported in the last couple of years and to negate this the government said we will start gold bonds to add outside of the price of gold which you will get the fluctuations and the increments we will give you an

additional two and a half percent if you invest in sgv got it to negate the impact on the fiscal deficit that we are having but it's a Pity that we don't have gold because traditionally we did and I think given enough research and enough time space to this yeah but right now we're right next to the only old mine we have kgf but right now a lot of central banks across the world from China to Russia to all of these guys are starting to hold gold which is a very interesting Trend and generally following the smart money is a good idea and smart money is big money and central banks are the biggest of them all so

that's why that math is very important to me right how much does it cost to build a wall and have these many people inside and figure out whatever all the whatever this thing and that can be a good driver for me worst case if it doesn't happen never generated enough money to do that but do you think that's the nicest way to live no no no that's really not if that's your assumption of tomorrow today can't be happy you know what I mean yeah I don't think I can do a little bit of Detachment also tomorrow worst case if [ __ ] happens it's fine we're getting we

were discussing earlier in difference is cool yeah you're gonna die maybe 10 years you won't live you'll die in five years it's called this this thing called indifferent attachment okay where or distant attachment where you can you can live in the moment you can be happy you can have a long-term goal but be like you know if I don't accomplish those long-term goals or thing goes to [ __ ] or things go to [ __ ] it's fine I have a tattoo to remind me of that see there's no point There's No Tomorrow today is today and that's all there is yeah yeah so but like genuinely like as a 30 year old

like significantly more intelligent than any individual who who's like you know has a wife and is probably gonna have a kid and all that I don't think living in a state of pessimism is good yeah yeah [Music] like he laughs at jokes and all at the party he'll smile if you ask him to wave he'll wave but imagine like just think like take yourself away from here and put yourself in 1939 when World War was obviously much better and everybody was dying at 30 or go to the black plague or go to 1919 or go 200 years ago yeah I agree with that so life is bad the the question is do you fixate upon the negative or you

look no I'm not looking at it from a negative no that's what I'm saying I think this might happen there's probably a ten or five percent chance it might happen like I also know that the odds are not 100 it's a five percent chance that will happen it gives it drives me to the extent that oh I need to make enough money and have these things that are important to me in one place it gives it's a great motivating like a large scale motivating desire for me right to do this to build my own small mini Universe I would say and if it doesn't happen cool but at least I've worked towards it but if it

doesn't happen it's okay right 95 of the time things are going to be okay so so it's like that's why I said it's not Boomer to the extent where I will make significant life changes just I have a long-standing goal and I'm like okay I'll try to hit that goal so five percent odds of this happen yes five percent but five percent is enough of an odds to be worried about because you could have tangential paths which are not as bad but still you know have this thing I think either way having Community Living is not a bad thing yeah that that I probably agree with I think making a house for 25 of your closest friends uh the only question is is there

a wall or not and the guns so uh my prediction is I think none of this is gonna happen yeah uh I think governments are smart enough at some point of time when they see this is a weapon of mass destruction right now you could argue whether the nuclear profession treaty was fair whether we were treated fairly as a country within it whether you know even the United Nations is a functioning agency do we have agency of our own they can argue this for another limit but I think I think there are two sides to it and I will just abstract this from the way I look at it I think economically the

world will progress India will progress bound to happen every country in the world is weakening You could argue we're growing at three four or five or seven percent whoever date whosoever's data you want to believe um but We Will We Will economically progress now the thing that worries me is the point that you raised earlier which is are we creating enough employment um and are we creating enough sustainable employment right and to the point that you're saying that is it dense enough is it you know look at our cities our cities are coming right

there's no infrastructure uh everyone's moving from rural to Urban and that's not the way to live or that's not the way sure economic growth is going to happen so I think my prediction for the future in 10 years is one yes this is a weapon of mass destruction is the way I'll frame it weapons of mass destruction around the world there will be one example over hiroshimana Pearl Harbor I'm sure they will happen to your point but I think they it'll soon come under curtail right there will be some proliferation that will come around the world to align to cause Extinction or any of this not happening having said

that I think the goal for leaders or the goal for whoever is setting into the next 10 years is while we may be economically Progressive today but to maintain that demographic dividend I'm hoping then we can create those sustainable jobs my view is I think when we were born we knew what our lifestyle of our parents were um and I can safely say the lifestyle we lead uh is significantly when we started our careers was way better and that's a function of being beneficiaries to everything that we've seen technology mobile growth all of that I think 10 years out we will see that but if we continue down this path where we don't

care about the environment we don't care about you know the point that you were raising does is the uniform um Universal basically yeah it was the basic income uh a thought right I think we're gonna have to change our thinking but I don't think it will change in 10 years nickel I think it's going to take a little bit more than that I think we'll see economic progress I think we will see a better future and I'm optimistic that we will take some decisions to stop weapons of mass destruction but more importantly create a sustainable sustainable set of jobs um and to the threat that AI has it does

put in a large threat on those jobs when I look at it look at two thousand 2008. every Financial meltdown and you're the expert here right why hasn't the Indian economy ever got dropped It's You could argue is because good or bad we've got a federal bank that is bloody strict even to do one stupid credit card transaction now you have several otps and you know different you don't have an spb Happening Here I don't know um so no no I like the Thunderman you like the central bank they sent me here to get that out of you no no I think that you shouldn't edit I

think there are many acts that I think the U.S should not have repealed a bunch acts like the Dodd-Frank The Classy girl they should not have recombined investment banking with normal normal banking all of that Indian banking is a lot more conservative and the quality of Indian Banks is probably Superior but if you were to look at a scenario where you know when the interest rates went up in the US they went from a quarter percent to four and a half percent that rate of change is about thousand eight hundred percent right long dated paper in India works the same

way uh we call them G6 right government securities uh hasn't hit us as much because we have gone from five percent to four and a half percent to like six and a half percent which is like a twenty thirty percent change if a rate of change event like that occurs and six percent becomes 12 15 20. here too for everybody holding G6 they will be marked to my classes and everybody has G6 Banks Brokers insurance companies everybody I think this is something the government should probably not consider as cash today in this system it's considered as cash so say for example you're buying a stock right

uh you buy 100 rupees worth of infuses since we spoke about it so to get full margin from that stock you need to bring in 100 rupees of cash right to create a pledge and get full margin today gsec is considered as cash I think that's a systemic risk and they're using it as a tradable instrument yeah they're treating it as it has cash and I think it's a long-term systemic risk in the system which has to be changed anything any Financial instrument which has a mark to Mark component carries duration risk if I am buying 20-year debt under any category but there is a mark to Mark element interest rates go up and down things can

go wrong yeah I mean svb exactly as we can happen here it's just the rate of change is not the same well thank you for that but RBA rocks yeah there you go I think relatively there are a lot more able Dynamic and big change and they are reciprocative of what people think compared to the rest I agree I I would know what do you think is going to happen in 10 years me you know what being a stock Trader 19 years full-time has taught me expectation is productivity goes up across the world across the board Ubi comes into play uh

Ubi brings some kind of equanimity across the world like I was saying earlier I think capitalism Works relative to everything else we've seen But the version of capitalism we have probably has to change to a version where the anomalies right the people who have disproportionated yeah disproportionate rewards of capitalism they have to become a bit more venerable and it can happen either through tax Labs inheritance tax property tax estate tax stuff like that you tell this to Bill Gates things like estate taxes and inheritance tax right it's

there's so much precedent like if you go to U.S if you're dying you're giving your money to your kid you pay 30 35 you go to UK is the same you go to South Korea you pay much more but similar things happen in India in the richest folk in our country they don't give anything and I don't think I think entrepreneurship has to be encouraged right like you're trying to make money you're trying to like scale a company or trying to work all of that is fine but if somebody you're competing with has predicated inheritance in inherited wealth from 10 Generations that competition is not even so I think

across Generations these taxes should exist it will come yeah and I think property tax is the best thing that will happen in India like if you were to live in say a pricey state in America say Connecticut or something right you would be as much as two percent of the value of your property every year as what happens to most of the ill gotten wealth black money in India it goes and sits in real estate there's no way of taxing that for some reason we don't have tax on Farmers uh there are people like Monsanto big Agri companies who earn 300 500 crores a year they don't pay tax because they take advantage of

that Farm loan there's a lot that has to be repealed in our tax laws but sorry digressing coming back to the point I think productivity will go up uh capitalism will evolve in the manner that I said Ubi will come in I think Ubi will create a ecosystem where people who want to pick capitalism can pick capitalism otherwise we'll play base level yeah base level socialism and I think those two exist hand in hand uh I think like I don't know if this is true but I have two people I work out with in the gym they just went on a holiday to New Zealand and came back

right the husband wife married couple they were telling me in New Zealand most people do not care who you are how much money you have it's a very it's a beautiful yeah it's a different Society but it works right like you can choose to do what you want he can choose to do what he wants I think they'll go to a world like that uh why are you so so question is are you is this the idealistic nickel I asked him to paint the optimistic World optimistic picture uh okay so okay the question which is is this idealistic you which is optimistic you or do you really believe because what you said is

compassionate capitalism we all know that's the answer and we all know how hard it is to get there do you really believe it we'll get that in 10 years I think organically right like it's it's funny I say this because I'm generally a fairly pessimistic person uh but I think organically people do write by people over the long term I'm not talking about the rich versus the poor the gifted versus the Ungifted whatever but Society Humanity has lasted till this point and it has thrived because organically we kind of do right by each other interesting so you're not in the market will in school of thinking

clearly no I I mean see I think machia really right like I love his I mean he's not got many books but Prince for example or whatever I think his viewpoints are very myopic right like he knew how to operate the Medici family Italy of the time he knew how to get power amongst the Bourgeois of that era and you know his skill sets were limited to that you can extrapolate and say chanakya of Indian history or whatever so I spend a lot of time reading random books right like different eras but the one common trait I think is when push comes to shove Humanity kind of comes together and yeah I think so it's a pessimistic picture I

thought I mixed both of them a little bit he brought a marketing no because I found it too idealistic yeah that's why I wanted to know that is it it's fine so there's been enough pessimism on this podcast I know it's fine yeah what a nice soothing way to it yeah yeah beautiful yes love who does that this is the Korean sign for Islam makes this one what Korean stuff are you watching now dude I don't know yes obviously keep on for a second but you know how is it hot man this is a heart no it looks like a heart oh does it